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Author Topic: Thanks Julia.....  (Read 7689 times)
Des Garvin
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« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2011, 22:38:27 PM »

Thanks to who ever removed those intimidating posts.
 As a lad quite a number of moons ago I was raised on a farm where we were at the mercy of the over educated and inexperianced farm advisors and the Stock agents. "Straight out of university and still in nappies" was dads reference. Well he was one of the few who told the advisers to take their leave and not return. Ended up selling out to the government forrestry department as the farms all around him were put in pine trees, so you were limited in our fuel reduction programs to spring burns where you caused untold damage to the wild flowers and also soil erosion.
 So when I say I understand the cattlemans displeasure with the current pollys I am with yaz all the way.  Smiley Smiley
 Still trying to find out how to workout my carbourn foot print formula. Can anyone tell me.  Huh Huh Huh
Cheers Des Garvin.
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What you focus on grows. Des Gravin Bullsbrook Geraldton's (southern suburb) W.A.
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« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2011, 10:13:18 AM »

I watched the Landline show too.  Here’s a quote from Professor Julian Cribb who was interviewed on the show under ‘Tackling the global food challenge’
The scientific goals of the coming decade are clear, and I have outlined them in a longer paper, ‘The coming famine’. They include:
•   a 200 per cent increase in water use efficiency in all crops;
•   a global effort to put organic farming systems on a scientific footing and exploit still-unknown soil biological processes;
•   development of low-input farming systems that rely far less on oil-derived fertilisers, chemicals and energy;
•   a global effort to recycle all nutrients on-farm, in the food chain and sewage works;
•   a massive effort to raise vegetable production and consumption to replace protein and carbohydrate-based foods, using more than 1000 species of ‘new’ vegetables currently undeveloped in agriculture – this will also address the obesity pandemic;
•   large-scale introduction of ‘green cities’ (urban horticulture on buildings) and vegetable protein biosynthesis using recycled sewage nutrients; and
•   development of farming systems, especially for the Third World, that protect native vegetation and biodiversity, cleanse water and sequester soil carbon.
No mention of increasing meat production, rather, replacing it.  He, like many others unfortunately, are too intimidated to actually directly challenge the cattle industry directly (meat pies ,kangaroos and Holden cars culture), but the reference is obvious. 
Where is the diversity of opinion on this forum?
 
No brains or sense of humour , you meatheads (and I know you’ll take this as a compliment) are pretty thin skinned and intolerant.  Hitler is not my mentor and was an evil man.  I apologise if you took my post literally.  Yes, I was being sarcastic Roll Eyes. Hitler was a killer and I don’t believe in killing (of any creature), thus the reason for my stance.  I think this was used as a ploy to supress independant thought due to being 'intimidated' by a free thinker.  I did mention him to highlight the fact that vegetarians (yes he apparently was one) are not all the same and cannot (like meat eaters) be all lumped in together (hence the juxta position between him and Paul McCartney).  Some are violent, some are not animal lovers (I'm not), some are vegetarians for health reasons only (7th day Adventists – they even sell and raise beef cattle) and some for philosophical reasons (me).  Vegetarianism, whatever your philosophical persuasion, is the future, wether you like it or not....'more important than climate change': Julian Cribb. http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7869
Don't worry, it's good for you.  I raised 6 children as vegetarians and the oldest is 28 and all still strict vegetarians.
I like a good fight.  Do you?
As far as the youtube video is concerned, all feedback, as to legality, inspiration, suggestions etc. etc. most welcome.  It is not publicly listed (you are priveleged), only those with the link can view it and it is a proposal only, formulated as part of an assignment for an IT course at TAFE using power point. Very interested to hear, in particular, comments about the 3rd slide "Byron Bay Microlights" as he has been in operation for years and advertises (Joy Flights) widely as TIF's for various price structures.  Watch the video in high definition (760) and full screen to read the brochure or visit his website.  Thanks for watching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqcffkRIZhs 

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Mark Horan
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« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2011, 01:01:02 AM »

I was wondering what all the fuss was about??/

But Now I have read one of his  posts I can see the usual arrogance of the vege crowd comming through has upset the normals'

I Know the normals, every night when I brush the mandables, I see the result of evoluton. The crushing teeth at the back for eating the nuts and grains that occur once per year, and the sharpish teeth at the front of mt mouth that are designed to eat the meat protien that occurs all year round! Kind of helps to understand the rise of the species doesnt it!
I know vegetarian freinds who only feed their dogs rice and vegies, just because you can, doesnt make it right.

Now I dont mind vegetarians, there has to be some diversion in every species, the problem for me however, comes in the form of a politically correct peanut telling me what I can and cant do. When I was a kid, if you werent in the majority, it payed to keep your mouth shut lest you found someones foot in your teeth, but one night in my twenties or thirties I went nigh nighes and someone changed the settings. The coppers suddenly were all 4ft tall and the idiots suddenly had an opinion that should never have affected my life, but has.

I think it is about time we flicked the switch back. When the power goes out for a week in the cities and the population falls into anarchy (when we finally get rid of that pesky coal and the electricity that it makes) then the settings will return to normal where comonsense is respected and a punch in the mouth is not assult but a part of your education.
Abraham Lincoln correctly said "you cannot strenghten the weak by weakening the strong", maybe you can, but for how long?

Mark
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Mark Horan
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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2011, 01:12:19 AM »

I might add,

That as a kid I always wondered how the great civilisations fell, At nearly 50 I can see it before my eyes

Human society moved too far away from the Human animal and as anyone who lives on the land knows, Nature wins every time!

Mark.
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johnc
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« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2011, 08:33:13 AM »

Thanks Mark.  Yes, us humans were designed for choice. But we are not slaves of evolution.  We force it.  It's all about making the right choices at the right time.  We are approaching a crisis (as a human species).  Guess what?  We Australians do not live in isolation.  We have had it too good for too long.  Death, taxes and change.  These are the certainties.  Remember slide rulers, horse and buggies (na probably not), movies where everyone smoked, slaughterhouses (woops, too far ahead).  Personally I'm a vegetarian for philosophical reasons and the argument I put forward here is economic and ecological but the outcome is the same.  I also have other, dare I mention, spiritual reasons but I would never throw these pearls out in public, unsolicited.  Suffice to say, there are enough worldly reasons for my point of view, backed, as it turns out, by science.  Please reread previous post re not lumping all vegetarians together - we are not a seperate species, some vegetarians sh!t me, some meat eaters are my friends.  We all, I'm sure, have the best intentions, but differ in the detail as to execution.  Non of us do it hard here.  Go to North Korea,etc. etc. we got it way too easy.  I'm personally bankrupt, divorced, dead broke, gyrocopterless and no assets worth more than $3,500, and underemployed with a dependent child.  Can't complain (well just a bit).  I don't live in a dictatorship (that'll get the cockies going), my children are happy enough (probably even bit spoilt by third world standards), I have a roof over my head and enough to eat (glad I don't have to buy meat), and a computer with internet connection to annoy people!  My glass is half full.  What got me going initially was all the f'ing complaining.  Your turn to taste a bit of inconvenience.  Yes, people are p1ssed off.  There's enough needless suffering in the world, don't you think, without us contributing.  I'm over it.  Stop whinging.

You can't fob science off as political correctness Mark. Hardly call vegetarians politically correct though.  More of a radical minority.  We get criticised for sh1t stirring and labelled wimps at the same time.  All my kids were picked on and I taught them to look after themselves.  I boxer, 1 kickboxer, 1 Karate, the rest good talkers and runners.  I like the punching thing too.....
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« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2011, 19:27:13 PM »

and some for philosophical reasons (me).  Vegetarianism, whatever your philosophical persuasion, is the future, wether you like it or not....'more important than climate change': Julian Cribb
Ha ha ha, gess it takes all kinds to make a world. Roll Eyes
If it wasnt for ignorats like this bloke, i wouldnt feel as smart, grounded and ' in touch with reality' as i do now. Cheesy

Your not philosophiacl jon, your ignorat.
This is by no means a slure, just a fact. Wink

'more important than climate change'
Well, that puts it WAY up there then dont it.
Climate change is also a fact, not a problem.

Wot realy gets my goat is pissants like this realy think they can control nature. just shows how far removed they are from it.
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Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.

Theres gota plenty of money in the cow grown industry, coz all the bucks seem to stop ere. Sad
Mark Horan
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« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2011, 11:22:38 AM »

right on birdy!
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« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2011, 11:42:48 AM »

You can lead an ass to water ...... but you can't make sychophants THINK!
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 11:58:00 AM by johnc » Logged

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Mark Horan
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« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2011, 12:46:27 PM »

John,

The problem here is, is that people make assumptions. Remember slide rules, horse and buggies (should be sulkies), movies where every one smoked and slaughterhouses?

Well actually, yes I do! I roll my own smokes, I can use a slide rule, I can break a horse into harness and I can Kill and cut up my own meat, feed my own family and over 250 other families around the world.

I can grow oilseed, press it and make my own fuel, I have build a wind generator and could produce my own power if I had the time to p!ss around with Batteries and the like.

I run my farm slightly below to its capability and have put in pasture that feeds my animals year round using native and introduced grasses and build soil carbon that improves my land. I produce grass fed cattle and have used selective breeding to achieve the type of animal that the market wants, no hormones, no crap. The animal husbandry on our farm produces kind, calm animals that are fat shiney and healthy. I know every one of our 300 breeding cows, how they walk, how they interact with the rest of their particular heard and which calf belongs to which individual cow, each year.

the Animal lobby portrays people like me as blood thirsty users of life, well I can tell you for free, that the welfare of our animals is paramount to our existence. that is the reason why I am up around the cattle 3 times a day during calving, checking for cows who are having difficult births, Pulling calves, sticking hands into neather regions in mornings and evenings of minus temperatures and hand rearing calves who"s mothers abandon them or die.

Like most people with livestock, this work is not just economic, we do it because we have a genuine love of our animals, the fact that Beef cattle are destined for the plate is a fact of life, everything dies and it is a far better world where there is no waste.
Despite common (city) belief, animals don't sit around at the end of the day reading newspapers and smoking their pipe in front of the fire after dinner. Herbivores have been eaten by carnivores long before we got up on our hind legs and the domestication of animals lead to the rise of our species.
I can grow livestock on our country without the use of fertilisers, it would be impossible to produce the same protein from vegetables and to attempt it would leave the soil unproductive within a decade. If we leave our world to be run by academics, scientists and philosphers, we will be hungrier than those poor buggers in Nth Korea.

While I respect the rights of those who choose not to eat my product, they should respect my right to engage in an activity that has been vital to our species for quite a few thousand years.

Mark.
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birdy
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« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2011, 13:17:23 PM »

Wouldnt waste your time on agueing with idiots Mark, coz clowns like this hava mind like fort knox.

Wunder how much time this idiot has spent in the real world? [ nun obviously, gudgen by his level of ignorance.]

No dout he's learned plenty off this internet tho. Thats why he [ thinks] he's on the money.

Worst part for us grounded people is the fact that they can still propergate, [coz they got nuthn productive to do] and we are out numbered.

But, there isa silver line'n.
If we are out numbered by these vegy heads, then we, liven ina democrocy, must accept majority voice.
BUT if Mizzz gizzard is anythn to go by, the majority dont stand a chance. Cheesy
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Theres gota plenty of money in the cow grown industry, coz all the bucks seem to stop ere. Sad
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« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2011, 19:34:18 PM »

Don't worry too much , Davo , Mizzz Gizzard won't be there much longer.

  Blokes like you , Mark , Chopper , Ken , Rob Cook each feed & support more people than a thousand city dwellers . You can do without them but they can't do without you .

   Bad news this morning - talks are hinting of extending the live trade ban for 12 months   Angry

   Heard an interview with a lady from one of the stations & she said if that happens then that will be that will be the end for them.
 
What gives any Govt. the right to cripple & break hard working families ?

   Unfr1gg1n believable .......    Angry Angry Angry

 John , you would do well to keep your mouth shut.    
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 21:46:38 PM by Echo » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2011, 20:32:46 PM »

My 2 bobs worth but seeing my name mentioned.......I dont think there would be one livestock producer in 1000 that would condone animal cruelty, in fact I know many who hurt when they know their livestock are doing it tough for whatever reason or another but back to this current debacle.
Why couldnt the trade be kept going, investigate throughly what was happening in the abbortoirs where Australian animals were being killed, put pressure on abbortoirs  that didnt comply to standards. Apparently there are hundreds of abbortoirs throughout Indonesia, some kill a couple of beasts per day and some hundreds, from what I know, many comply and are doing the right thing meaning just a few places need cleaning up.
We do have to keep in mind that Indonesia is a seperate country to Australia, they dont need our cattle or trade and could very rightly tell the Australian government to go suck eggs. One thing I think of is how we would like it if the Indonesians told us how to do this or that and seeing they are largely a muslim country, many of our practices disgust muslims. Why havent we the same disgust when we all know that Nike Addidas etc use child slave labour to make their produce ??

The winners in this battle, if the trade doesnt recommence, will be the greens and the many ignorant supporters of this minority government who are basically holding the labour government to ransom and fact is that the greens take control of the senate come July 1!

The loosers are the  many hundreds of families who export cattle then there are the workers /towns /trucking /mustering etc etc who will all feel the effects of an instantaneous depression and I know how they feel. Its very hard to believe that a government could delibrately do what they are doing but we are seeing what happens when everyone sits back and says " She'l be right mate " ! We Australians have had a very laid back attitude for the last 40 years or so, leaving it to somebody else to do the hard yards, we have been lulled into a false sense of security thiking that someone else was steering the ship.

When the rightous step back, the void is filled by the unrightous. This country and America were founded on Christian values, over the years we have let the old moral values, integrity, rightous etc slip, they have been replaced. We have the godless , homosexuals / lesbians etc running the country, very shortly legislation will be introduced legalizing gay marriages and many other disgusting acts are going to be legalized reflecting the " modern thinking views of the  Australian population "

Anyway, said way too much I guess about something I dont understand or care about, have no interest in etc etc and wont go to bed thinking about the plight of those great people like the Cook's who's future has been turned upside down and have  no interest in the future of this country or the way its being run.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 23:37:48 PM by Chopper Reid » Logged

Brian
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« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2011, 08:13:06 AM »

Thanks Mark and Chopper for your considered responses.  The others ...... 'sticks and stones...
I'm not supporting any government and don't identify with any political persuasion and never have.  My argument is not theirs and any point of similarity is coincidental only.  I see whats going on as simply part of a greater awakening of human conciousness or evolution, if you like.  Like the abolition of slavery (Abe Lincoln was a bad example Mark!).  It was the practice of the 'strong' being 'weakened' by having their slave labour denied.  Why....because it was unethical.  And the 'weak' were strengthened and are now strong.  The strongest were the ones who were the most motivated by their belief in what they reasoned to be right, and they succeeded in abolishing slavery.

Humans aren't (just) dull brutes who follow 'nature'.  Everything we feel and think is nature (our advanced brain is natural), so abstract thought and complex problem solving is nature.  Bragging about being 'grounded' is denying your (super)natural capacity which includes such lofty sentiments as empathy for others and compassion for the weak and vulnerable.
 
An example if I may:  My children were bought up vegos and sent to catholic school (non vego) and were obliged to go to religious class.  In one class on the book of genesis (creation) it was noted that only vegetation was given to man to eat.  So my daughter asked 'then why do you eat meat'? 'Because it also says in genesis that man was given dominion over the animals', was the teacher's reply.  'So why don't you look after them?'
  
I thought that was good child logic and it highlights my point - just because we 'have dominion' over others doesn't mean we should, enslave, rape, murder, slaughter or otherwise abuse them, be they human or animal, rather, we should care for them.  The most obvious example is a father's role in the family - he could easily overpower his dependents and abuse them but that is obviously wrong.  He should care for and protect them.  And I argue that the epidemic of Sh1t fathers (who are abusive) nowadays and it's general acceptance in human society and the resulting burden of single mothers and unwanted children bears witness to the plague of degenerate thinking where the degradation of higher thinking has born such fruit.  You can change nature - human nature - the brain is made for change and we are born almost a blank slate with a maleable brain with infinite potential and a long dependent childhood to facilitate such huge learning potential.
What to speak of pooling that brain power and/or freeing the brain power of some by having others grow their food - but we all share the food and intellectual output (we can't all be farmers, some people are more thinkers and vice versa).  Jeez I'm getting basic now!

It's a shame that the farmers can be labelled 'hicks' by the intellectuals and the intellectuals labelled 'snobs' by the farmers as both camps see themselves as somehow superior or more 'in touch with the real world'.   We ALL are heavily dependent on the hard work (be that physically or mentally) of millions of people past and present and it behooves us to recognise our debt to others, unless we live naked under a rock.

I believe in being a good father, empathetic to all creatures, hard working, high thinking and simple living. 
If you've got land you are priveleged - good on you(sincerely). You seem to have a handle on it Mark.  The 'Animal Lobby' just wants to stop cruelty - I think you're setting up a straw man there.  Most animal lovers (which would include 'The Animal Lobby') aren't even vegos.  I'm more extreme in my mental(illness?)ity and I've tried the bottle-in-front-of-me, might have to go for the full frontal-labotamy( I've heard it makes ya spell funny though!)

I must admit a hint of envy in my diatribe........if any of you 'hicks' got a spare gyrocopter laying round........what ya reckon birdsky? Wink

.....be nice to ALL creatures. Smiley

« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 15:07:27 PM by johnc » Logged

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birdy
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« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2011, 16:27:38 PM »

Mizzz Gizzard won't be there much longer.
Dont you believe it, australia is still asleep. Angry
just hope we wake up before she f***ks it compleatly.

The winners in this battle, if the trade doesnt recommence, will be the greens and the many ignorant supporters of this minority government
Not quite Brian, the real winners will be the country that fills the supply gap, and let it be known, they are already fightn over who its go'n to be.
The real loosers are the moos, coz nuthn will change if we aint there, and if we dont supply the moos, we have no leaverage at all.
The vegys n other dogoods only think they are do'n the rite thing, but thats wot comes from blind, ignorant stupidity.

I see whats going on as simply part of a greater awakening of human conciousness or evolution, if you like.
Mate, your a real unit. Cheesy
Wot the hell do you smoke. Huh
Awake, f***nell, if this country was any more asleep itd be dead. Sad

Bragging about being 'grounded' is denying your (super)natural capacity which includes such lofty sentiments as empathy for others and compassion for the weak and vulnerable.
Hear that?? im super natural. Cheesy Cheesy

I believe in being a good father, empathetic to all creatures, hard working, high thinking and simple living.
Gee, wish i had such high morals.
I bash me kids, torture any critter i can catch, sit on me ass all day with a blank mind tryn to figuer how i can make me life simpler. Sad

And you envy me?Huh?
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Theres gota plenty of money in the cow grown industry, coz all the bucks seem to stop ere. Sad
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« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2011, 19:28:26 PM »

Don't let the facts stand in the way of a good whinge birdbrain.
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